Halp! Pretty please!

[lauchlen]

Hello everyone,

This is going to be long, so please bear with me.

I'm drafting a pattern based on a tutorial from Weekend Designer. I've blogged about it a few times already, which you can check out if you like for background info.

I have the pattern all drafted up, but I think it's incorrect. Here's a copy/paste of the blog post:

Link to the tutorial.


The self-measurements needed for the point to points are:
Back Width: 14.5"
Back Waist Length: 13"
Bust: 45"
Waist: 37"
Dart: 4"

Point to points are:

(Pattern Diagram.)

A-B: 0.75"
B-C: 13"
B-D: 6.5"
D-E: 3.25"
D-F: 22.5"
D-I: 7.25"
F-J: 9.75"
F-O: 6.5"
G-Q: 3"
Q-R: 4"
F-S: 4.875"
S-T: 0.5"
D-U: 1.625"
H-V: 14.5"

I have the pattern drafted using the above measurements – except there's a problem. My pattern doesn't look much like the one provided. Hardly at all actually, especially the lower portion.

It could be due to the fact I'm short waisted and large in the bust... but I doubt it.

Lets break down the measurements I think cause the problem and how they are obtained.

The B-C measurement is back waist length (BWL), 13".
B-D is half my BWL, 6.5".
D-E is one quarter of my BWL, 3.25".

This effectively divides the entire pattern from point B down, into quarters. Point D to C is exactly half my BWL, just like point D to point B is half my BWL.

It also divides the other side of the pattern into quarters. Point F to H is half my BWL. Point F to N is one quarter my BWL. Point F to G is half my BWL plus 3/4".

Why is this problematic?

Well, if you look at the measurement calculation for point F to O, it says F to O is two times the distance of N-F. We've already established the N-F is one quarter my BWL. Which means F-O is the same measurement as B-D; 6.5".

When measuring 6.5" down from point F to mark point O, we're left with only 3/4" between point O and H. Just like we're left with 3/4" between point B and A when we draw the point from B to D. Because the pattern has been divided into quarters above and below points D and F.

If you look at the diagram provided, there is supposed to be a lot more than 3/4" between O and H. In fact, for the squaring of P to V to work properly, there needs to be distance.

The drawing says it is not to scale, except I've never come across a drawing that far from scale.

So I'm scratching my head and wondering what to do.

Are the instructions correct despite my tingling senses saying they probably are not?

Help, please?

(I've sewn up my draft and it is no where near to fitting me. The lower edge of the pattern measures a total of 22.5". It needs to measure 38", my underbust.)

So either I drafted it up wrong or the instructions are wrong. Either way, does anyone have any idea what I can do to fix it?

As requested, here is a pic of the pattern drafted up:



The letters for the right hand side's top three points aren't marked, but are, in decending order, G, N and F.

Here's a pic of the pattern cut out and splayed:



And here's a pic of half the bodice sewn up as it's supposed to be on completion:



I hope the pics help!


Cross-posted to sca_attire.

Comments

[teapot_rabbit]

Could you post photos of your draft and/or your mockup? I want to help, but all the letters with no visual reference are making my head swim. :)

[lauchlen]

Hi!

Thanks for wanting to help. I've uploaded some pics and updated the post for you.

*G*

[teapot_rabbit]

Thanks!

Well, the center front area and the darts on your pattern look good. Something does seem to have gone wacky with the back half, though. The first thing I would do is double check all your measurements, preferably with someone to help you by holding the measuring tape. I know you said you were short waisted, but 13" for the back waist length sounds really short. I've found the best way to get an accurate back waist length measurement is to tie something (string, shoelace, handy fabric scrap) around your natural waist, and then have someone else measure from the top of your spine/base of your neck (on most people you can feel a bump) to the string.

I read through the instructions on the weekend designer post and I didn't see anywhere you went wrong with your calculations, so I'm going to say there's something weird going on. Unless I did something completely wrong, the measurements don't add up. I diagrammed it here: I'm as confused as you. You might just have to start winging it.

The line connecting U-V also seems really steep.

I have an issue with the pattern draft instructing you to use your back width to determine F-J. In my limited drafting experience, we were told to take the back width and front width, because people aren't symmetrical. I think this might be contributing to the pattern being too small at the underbust, Try measuring across your back at your bra line, from sideseam to sideseam, and then doing the same across the front. Are the measurements different?


Sorry if I'm reiterating stuff you already tried, I'm just trying to cover all the bases. :)

[lauchlen]

Oh thank goodness you're as confused about the F-H section of the pattern as I am. Hubby was looking at it with me last night and we both were just... head scratching. *g*

My BWL is 14.5". I switched the two around when calculating above. An opps but I don't think it changes how the pattern comes out.

Across my back from armpit to armpit is 13" and across the front, above my bust, it's 17". My high bust is 40".

Part of my confusion is that the tutorial tells that I'll need five self-measurements and I only end up using four. All the self-measures but high bust.

This is actually my very first time trying to draft from scratch and since the bodice looked very straight forward I thought I'd give it a try. *laughs* So much for simple.

You're not reiterating anything because I haven't tried anything. I drafted it up, found out the draft was wrong and posted for help.

I've googled for basic empire bodice draft instructions and come up with nothing. Since I don't have a printer I kind of need drafting instructions instead of a pattern. I didn't know finding instructions for a simple empire bodice with a bust dart could be so hard!

[teapot_rabbit]

I am reassured that it wasn't just me being utterly confused by the math! The 1.5" difference in in the BWL doesn't really seem like enough to make that much of a difference. Something seems to be really weird with the pattern instructions.

I would start by altering the pattern so the underbust length is actually long enough to fit you. I would do this by making the line from CB to P one half of your back width (measured from side-seam to side-seam along your braline, or wherever the bottom of the bodice is going to lie) and then making the line from P to O one half of your front underbust measurement (side-seam to side-seam, under your bust,) plus the dart. Does that make sense? I think that whatever you do, you're going to have to redraft most of the pattern.

It might be worth it to go to a library and see if they have any books on drafting. I have The Costume Technician's Handbook, by Rosemary Ingham and Liz Covey, which goes over basic drafting techniques. It's aimed more at theater costuming, but the basic information is still useful.

[lauchlen]

I have that book! I shall find it and give it a look through!

[aquaeri]

I've just started to read through the (original) instruction and D-E as a quarter of B-C is clearly wrong - in their drawing, and on the model, there's no way the upper finished edge is half-way between bust point and neck edge, and when it's doubled for F-O you end up back at the waist, not the empire line the dress is supposed to be.

I'm not sure I'm willing to guess what D-E should be instead without reading further through the instructions and trying to reverse engineer the finished product to determine what they originally meant.

(Also, I've done some pattern drafting from measurements and oh-boy this is badly thought-through, someone who doesn't properly understand drafting. So I fully expect to find further errors.)

[aquaeri]

I think that pattern is an unholy mess. Here's my suggestion: grab a clean piece of paper. Draw a vertical line on the right side (CF, as in the existing pattern). Place three points on that line, for the upper edge, bust line, and lower edge (their N, F (except they don't use it,they drop from S to T) and O points) based on your taste - eyeballing on myself, 2 1/2 inches between N and newF, and also newF and O, (total height 5") but it depends on your shape and modesty. Draw lines at right angles out from there, to half your bust (as per their D-F measurement), and draw another vertical line (like their B-C) for centre back.
So you'll have an E, a D (or newD) and a new point, extension of the O-P line. Draw a vertical side-seam line (like their L-K-P), about 1/4 of your upper bust (40", right?, so 10") from CB. Drop the upper back edge about an inch - 1 1/2 (eyeballing/taste again). Go straight across from the dropped E, start to curve up around the L, so you'll have a new dropped L point on the side seam line.

Now ideally you'll have your bust point to bust point measurement (across your chest) otherwise it's just under 1/4 of your total bust. Measure half of that, I'd expect about 4" from CF (N - newF - O) and draw another vertical for the bust point. Using your actual measurements (45" bust, 40" high bust), mark 1 1/4" on each side of the bust vertical on the N-E line, and draw in the X like the original pattern. Now the upper edge (once the X is sewn/pivoted) should be (half) your upper bust measurement, or a little looser, adjust to taste.

The lower edge needs to match your underbust, 38". If the X isn't centred, you'll need to measure how long the underbust line is now with the X dart out, but if you've gone with the 2 1/2, 2 1/2, that lower edge would now be 20" like the upper edge, and it needs to be 19". Go to the side seam (L-K-P) and draw points on either side of P to take out the extra inch (whether it's best balanced or not depends a bit on your figure). Draw straight lines from these points up to the dropped L point to make side seams.

That should be it - as per the original (and all pattern drafting) draw in smooth curves (particularly where the two new points on either side of P are joined to make the underarm seam, and also around L/new L), and make a mockup.

I hope the relationship between your measurements and style preferences, and the pattern, is now clear enough that you can figure out where to adjust for fit and taste.

If you pivot the side seam out (along with the upper part of the X) to make a single piece as in the original, I can't guarantee the CB will be exactly on grain but based on your measurements it's going to look a lot better than what you've got!

[lauchlen]

I want to do your taxes. My god, this is awesome and will help me a lot in drafting up today. I'd started a draft on my own based on similar measurements and a lot of praying. *G*

Thank you SO much!

[aquaeri]

No worries! I hope you got somewhere.

I did realise in retrospect that the upper bust measurement/dart size subtraction should happen at the point on the body the actual upper bust is, although the final design line of the finished dress might sit lower (and thus have a proportionally smaller amount taken out). Nevertheless, I think it's much better to size that X dart based on upper bust than waist/shoulder (as they do).

That was when my alarm bells really rang - they were working off a drafting rule for a full, shoulder-to-waist bodice, and I did enough pattern drafting classes to understand that you need a different base pattern when the bodice is strapless (or strappy, but the fitted part only goes just above the bust), to fit more closely just above and below the bust.